Bill Goss:                       Hello everyone, It’s Bill Goss here from Elite Publishing Academy, and I’d like to welcome my special guest today, Vicky Fraser. Hello, Vicky.

Vicky Fraser:                 Hello Bill.

Bill Goss:                       Excellent, no, thanks for jumping on board. Always like speaking with Vicky. Always like talking with Vicky because we’re kind of in a similar game as it were. And I’d say Vicky has done exceptionally well since I’ve known her for probably four or five years plus now, I think.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah, probably longer than that.

Bill Goss:                       Probably is longer than that, isn’t it, yeah?

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah.

Bill Goss:                       Actually it probably is, yeah. So Vicky, just in case people haven’t heard of you, which I know it would be amazing if they haven’t-

Vicky Fraser:                 Oh, astonishing I know.

Bill Goss:                       … could you just tell people just a little about you? Kind of background, what you do, and then we can get into a good conversation about the books.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah. I’m a writer, basically. That’s what I do. I write the words, and I make the monies, and I help other people to write the words as well. So my background is in direct response copywriting. That’s what I started off as. I was pretty good. Certainly better than average, and it was something that I quite enjoyed, but I didn’t love it. I didn’t love it enough to become truly great at it. And I was asked by a client to write a book for them.

Vicky Fraser:                 This is a good five or six years ago now. And I thought, “Ooh, goodness. Yeah, let’s have a go.” I absolutely loved it. I loved the whole process, and I kind of look back at that first book now, and think, “Gosh, I’ve come a long way since then.” But I’ve since written probably 12 books, ghostwritten 12 books for clients. I’ve written a couple for my own. I’ve coached 10 people to write their own books, and I’ve put a lot of people, like 30 or 40 people through my how to write your book course. And it was only last year really, or a year and a half ago, that I realized that this is what I wanted to do.

Vicky Fraser:                 After people have been telling me, you know, “This is the thing that you should be doing. This is the thing you’re really good at.” And I did my usual, I’m going to resist that because I don’t want other people telling me what to do. It took a bit of a meltdown in a field in France for me to realize what I wanted to do with my life. And it was this. It was help people to write books, and publish books, and just reach more people with … It’s by far, I believe, by far the best way to help change people’s lives, is to write a book.

Bill Goss:                       Yeah, well, you’re speaking to a person that fully appreciates that and understands that. But it’s hard, isn’t it, sometimes? A) Getting commitment from people to do it, because it’s a commitment, and there are fast ways of doing it, and quick ways of doing it, and all that type of stuff. I’m sure you can buy an Amazon course for 39 quid somewhere along the line, but … And also I think people, again from my point of view, and I’m sure you all have your own view, but sometimes they don’t want to over-commit to their truths if that makes sense. And I think it’s that resistance like you say to owning up to what you’ve done or you don’t feel like you’re actually sitting at the rich man’s table, shall we say. Why would people listen to me? So, I think people listening to this would like your take on that and how you kind of get across that barrier really.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah. That’s one of the biggest, biggest obstacles that people face, that they’ve told me that they face, is who the hell am I to write a book? And the flippant answer to that is, well, who the hell are you not to write a book? But I totally understand where they’re coming from, especially if you’re not like the Tony Robbins of your industry, or the Oprah Winfrey of your industry. You think, “Well, what have I got to contribute?”

Vicky Fraser:                 And my answer to that’s always the same. It’s that the Tony Robbins of the world, the Oprah Winfreys of the world are fantastic. They’re inspirational. They’re also untouchable. They are so far removed from where most of us are in our lives that they’re standing there on top of their mountains, which in fantastic and they’re giving their truths away, and giving their information away and all that; but actually I think what really changes people’s worlds and helps people to make a real difference is hearing from somebody who’s not that far ahead of them, who has been in the trenches and is still in the trenches.

Vicky Fraser:                 I still write books for myself and for my clients. I’m not somebody who is like, “Oh I just teach people to write books now.” I still do. I’m writing two books for clients at the moment as well as my own books and so I think that’s really helpful, is for somebody to say, “You know what? I haven’t made it. I’m not at the top of my mountain. I haven’t got a million quid in the bank but this is how I’m doing it. This is how I’m progressing every day.” And so if you are in a position in your business where you’ve made some progress, and you’re presumably an expert in what you do and if you’re not then that’s a whole different set of problems, but if you’re an expert in what you do, there are always going to be people who know far less that you who are going to be grateful and interested in what you’ve got to say.

Bill Goss:                       Absolutely yeah, and also I think a lot of resistance comes from … And we were talking just before we started this really, is people like myself who don’t believe in their writing abilities, to kind of come to somebody like you and kind of say, “Look, can you help me?” There’s different sections explained as well. There’s courses to do, there’s kind of the one on one i.e the ghostwriting. There’s lots of different ways of … you can like …transcribing it and getting it out there, isn’t there.

Vicky Fraser:                 There are, yeah, and that’s another common excuse I guess that people make is, “I’m not a writer.” And my answer to that again is, well if you write, you are a writer. And I know that you’re a much better writer than you think you’re, Bill, because we were talking about that earlier and it’s the same with everybody else. Okay, so you might not be polished. You might not have the same skills that I have from writing basically since I was 10 years old. I was crap to start with. Nobody is born … Dickens wasn’t born and the doctor said, “Congratulations! You’ve given birth to a lovely baby writer.” That’s not how this works, you know? You got to put the work in and yes, you can take all manner of courses, and there are some great courses out there. I’ve got one. There are some great books out there.

Vicky Fraser:                 There are a lot of things that you can do to learn but ultimately the very best thing you can do is to read a lot or write a lot. There is no shortcut. There are a few tips and tricks, are there are a few … Get The Elements Of Style by Strunk and White. It’s still a classic book but it’s still really relevant, and I’ve got a bunch of stuff on my blog which is which is all about writing tips and things. Just simple things like you know one of the most common edits that I make is delete the word “that”. 99% of the time it just adds nothing to what you’re doing. If you could go through and delete the words “you should” and “you could” because again, just say it. “You could do this.” Just say, “Do this.”

Vicky Fraser:                 So it’s little things like that, that you will learn as you go along and you get to be a good writer and know what good writing is through reading good writing and recognize what is bad writing as well when you read something bad and think, “Ugh, that’s awful.”

Bill Goss:                       Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely and I think a lot of people as well, just in my time within book publishing, people will procrastinate over it because you are exposing the truths if you do what we do as a way, that kind of publishing of getting your expertise out there for example and people want it to be perfect and it’s never going to be perfect, is it? I’ve kind of let that go a long, long time ago, but I’ve got people that help me out to do that and I think that’s what it is, is recognizing the tool that it can become and utilizing that tool in the right way. And don’t get hung up over everything, because I think that’s where a lot of people will stand still and the amount of people that come to me … And we do lots of calls, you know, and all this type of stuff, and, “Well, it’s kind of 80% done,” and you’re like, “How long has that been going on then?” “Well, about two years, three years.” You’re thinking, “What’s going to shove you?”

Bill Goss:                       That’s always the biggest question that I ask: “What’s going to actually shove you over the hill?”, if you like, to really make you do it. And it’s things like coming to experts like yourself to write it or help write it or whatever it is. Coaching, whatever it is, and I think people, if they really want to do it, they’re going to do it, aren’t they?

Vicky Fraser:                 Oh, absolutely, yeah. This is another one of those things where it’s like what’s your priority? If it’s truly a priority for you, you will get it done. But I also understand that like you say, it’s a scary thing to do. Before I sent my book to my beta reader … It’s with them as you know because you sent it to them for me, I was sitting there before I hit send, or hit the email to you. I was sitting there nearly throwing up. It’s really scary and I do this for a living. You know? This is what I do. It is a scary thing to create something and then put it out there to the world and say, “This is my thing that I have made. Do with it what you will.”

Vicky Fraser:                 Because there are always going to be people who go, “You know what? This is a bag of shit.” And if nobody says that to you, then you probably haven’t done a good enough job of putting your heart and soul into it, because there’s always going to be people who hate what you do. But do not let that stop you. I find it tragic when people have got this amazing message to put out there and they let that perfectionism stop them. I understand it. We all suffer from it, but don’t let it stop you. There’s a couple of ways you can get over it. I talk about it quite a lot in my book. It’s called, Sorting Out Your Inner Dickhead. Because your inner dickhead will always sabotage you.

Vicky Fraser:                 If you’ve got the budget, hire an editor. A good editor will do wonders for your book and your confidence and if you approach it with the attitude that, “Okay, I’ve created this thing. It’s not ready to go yet. This is my shitty first draft which is a marvelous thing. Now I need somebody to help me polish it.” That’s great. A professional editor will do an amazing job and they will turn your shitty first draft into something that is awesome. If you haven’t got the budget for an editor, and a lot of people haven’t, and that’s fine, then you go through the editing process. You send it to beta readers, people who are kind enough to read it and say, “You know what? I think this chapter would fit better there.” And that’s exactly what somebody did to me. He’s like, “This isn’t your first chapter. This needs to come a little bit later.” That was completely invaluable, so yeah, you can get help from people all over the place.

Bill Goss:                       And that’s … Yeah, just kind of rewind slightly there. So, just to confirm, your new book is titled at the moment …

Vicky Fraser:                 Oh, no, the title is-

Vicky Fraser:                 … How the Hell Do You Write a Book? Because I thought that pretty much summed up what most people think when they’re like, “Write a book, what? How the hell do you do that?”

Bill Goss:                       And within that, what Vicky’s done, again this is a really clever way exactly … And I’m kind of going back over what she said really there, is she sends out to numerous beta readers that all put their hands up and said, “Yeah, I’ll give my time to you and give you honest feedback.” And like you say, that is a great way if you’re writing it yourself is to get that honest feedback, isn’t it? And you don’t want people that are just giving you high fives all the time, do you? You want people to be honest with you.

Vicky Fraser:                 Exactly, yeah. I mean, there are ways. I’ve written a couple of articles on this recently actually because obviously it’s been playing heavily on my mind, but it’s really hard to receive criticism. It really is, even when you’ve asked for it. I will spend the first couple of minutes going, “Oh, well, okay, whatever.” And then you have to remember, “I’ve asked for this. I’ve asked for this because I want my book to be as good as it can possibly be.” And as soon as you reframe it like that and receive it in the spirit in which it’s intended, and as long and the people who give you criticism are saying, “You know what? I think this could be better if you did this,” rather than just, “Oh, I didn’t like this,” or, “This isn’t very good.” That’s not helpful and is just mean.

Vicky Fraser:                 But if they say, “I don’t think this works because …” And, “How about trying this?” Then that’s incredibly valuable. I am so profoundly grateful to my beta readers for the time and effort that they’re putting into reading my book. I’m blown away by them, to be honest, and I know that the book will be an amazing book because of that.

Bill Goss:                       Absolutely, and the first book that you published as well, did you do the same process? It was differently completely, yeah?

Vicky Fraser:                 It was totally different, yeah, because when I wrote my first book, I remember being like, “I’m going to do this thing,” and I stood up in front of the mastermind group and said, “I’m going to do this thing and I’m going to do it in 90 days,” and then I was like, “Oh, shit, I’ve got to do this thing,” and I did. And I’m proud of that book because it’s the first one that I wrote. But-

Bill Goss:                       It’s a good one.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah, it is a good book and you know, I’ve had people write to me and say, “This book has transformed my business, my life. I’ve had the first Christmas that is out of poverty ever thanks to your book,” which is incredible. I’ve had messages that have brought me to tears. I still think that … I look back on it now and think, “Gosh, I could do so much better,” and that’s fine because that’s part of the history and evolution of becoming a better writer and writing a better book. I think this method is by far the best because if you can get the ideal reader of your book to read it and give you feedback and say what works and what doesn’t, it cannot fail to be better after that process.

Bill Goss:                       Yeah I agree 100%. This book now, what have you done so … Obviously you’re helping others write their books. Do you’ve a formula or … I know everybody’s different but when you’re working with clients not only just on your own book obviously but with your own clients, is there kind of a … I’m not saying give us all the trade secrets, but do you use a kind of like, “Well, we’re going to do this,” kind of roughly this is how it’s going to be and this is what we’re going to do, or is everyone different?

Vicky Fraser:                 There’s a little bit of both because I do have a framework that I like to use, but having said that, I’ve worked with people before who have really struggled with it so I really try and find out what they work best with and what they struggle with. For people who struggle with the actual writing side of things I’m like, “You know what? Let’s dictate it. Let’s do this slightly differently. Let’s do it as a series of interview question instead.”

Vicky Fraser:                 With most people I think tend to suit my outlining framework. You start with your big idea and you narrow it down and hone it and there’s a few things that I do there. But if I’m coaching people, that’s the thing that I teach in my course, because I can’t tailor that, because it’s a course. But if I’m coaching people, there’s a bunch of different stuff that I will do and I will work with people’s strengths and I will try and get them to do what feels comfortable to them. My way of writing a book is definitely not the only way, not even necessarily the best way for anybody. So I try and kind of work with what people are good at.

Bill Goss:                       So with this brand new book it’s going to be released any month soon.

Vicky Fraser:                 Early June.

Bill Goss:                       Early June. So yeah, what was the main thoughts of obviously writing a book. I mean, I know it sounds pretty simple but what made you think, “Well, actually, this is what I really want to write about”?

Vicky Fraser:                 It started off with, I know how powerful a book can be for a business owner in terms of finding better clients, doing the marketing and all the rest of it. But I also know how incredibly powerful it can be for building your confidence as well. You learn so much writing your book. You surprise yourself as to how much you learn. You learn more about what you do as well because of the research that you put in and the confidence that it brings is just one of the hidden benefits that people don’t really talk about very much. I just wanted people also to understand that writing their book actually can change people’s lives for the better and again, that’s so cool. It really is and so that’s what I wanted to get across. But I also realize that writing a book also is a massive thing to do. It’s really scary for most people.

Vicky Fraser:                 Even for writers and authors, it’s a massive deal, so I didn’t want it be another one of those books where you’re like, “Oh, you can do these 10 things and this is how it works,” or just a big wooly, “Let’s do this and let’s do that.” I wanted it to be a really specific, “Of you do these things and break it down into what I call tiny beetle steps, you will have a book by the end of it.” I’m not promising that it’s going to be done in a week or even a month. It might take a lot longer than that but I am promising if you do all of the things, you will have a book that is fantastic and that you can be proud of. And that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to take people from, “how the hell do you write a book?” To, “Oh my god, I’ve written a book.”

Bill Goss:                       Yeah. Yeah. No, and it makes perfect sense.” Obviously I’ve seen the initial draft of it and it’s a lovely, easy read in a way that it flows nicely and you can … like you say, the point of it is to take someone who is scared of it, a bit like me, “Ooh,” you know, even though I’ve done five myself, but every time I panic a little bit. I’m getting a bit clammy-handed just thinking about it, but that’s the whole point of it, isn’t it? Is taking people and king of walking them through it without dumbing it down, without trying to dictate either as well. I think it’s written lovely in the way it kind of flows through as well to help people.

Vicky Fraser:                 Thank you.

Vicky Fraser:                 That’s exactly what I wanted to achieve. I wanted people to first realize that this is something that they can do. they absolutely can do if they want to. That they don’t have to. I hear a lot of gurus say, “You must write a book and it must be the next thing you do on your marketing list.” And I don’t really subscribe to that. I think a book is more important than that, so you don’t have to write a book. But if you want to, then it is something you absolute can do. And I also wanted to kind of break down those barriers as we went through. I know this is difficult. Here’s how we are going to get over it and you might struggle with this; this is one of the ways that you can get over it. So yeah, I’m glad it works like that.

Bill Goss:                       And would you agree, and this is just from my point of view really, would you agree to start with that people are a little bit daunted, is just change the wording slightly to write a guide instead of a book? Or does it depend on the genre that you’re writing in or whatever? Do you know what I mean? Because that’s what I think kind of helps them, just certain wording for people, is that it doesn’t have to be a masterpiece. Just get writing you know and learn your craft a little bit, you know?

Vicky Fraser:                 Yes, that’s a really good point actually because I think in the book I talk about that little bit, that people think that because they’re writing a book it has to be this huge great big thing, and I think that comes from insecurity. “Oh, my book won’t be a proper book unless it’s like War and Peace.”

Bill Goss:                       I always get that from men by the way.

Vicky Fraser:                 Do you?

Bill Goss:                       How big has it got to be? Surprise, surprise. And it’s true. How many pages has it got to be? I don’t know, how good’s the content? You know?

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah. And you know what? I think that very question or that very worry leads to so many crap books because how many books have you read that could be great books, and there’s some on my shelf back there that are quite famous, could have been written in half the pages because it has been padded. And you can tell when it’s been padded because you get bored. It’s like, ugh, this is fluff. You’ve said this already. And that, I think, comes from that insecurity of, “Oh, I’m writing a book, therefore it has to be big.” No it doesn’t. It just has to be good, and interesting, and useful, and valuable. And that might be a 30 page pamphlet or it might be a 300 page textbook. So, no, it doesn’t have to be big. It doesn’t have to be anything. It has to get your message across and make a difference in somebody’s world.

Bill Goss:                       Absolutely, yeah. So even for you as a craftsperson with the writing skills, what was kind of the hardest thing still for you when you’re either outlining the book, writing it, whatever. What do you find the hardest? What do you kind of think, “Oh no, don’t want to do this”?

Vicky Fraser:                 Sitting down to write.

Bill Goss:                       Is it really?

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah.

Bill Goss:                       Oh, wow.

Vicky Fraser:                 Because it’s … I’ve thought a lot about this. I think because it’s just a big thing to do, it’s a big commitment to make. Once I’ve sat down and I’m working, it’s great and I’ll get into the flow and I love doing it, but I will find 33 things to do before I have to sit down and write. And so I have to be really disciplined about it. Some days I do better than others but it’s like, you know, yeah, that I find difficult.

Vicky Fraser:                 I also find really difficult sending it out to people for feedback. It’s painful. It’s really painful. It’s equally as difficult I think to receive really good feedback which sounds kind of counterintuitive, but if you’re anything like me there’s always that little voice in your head go, “You’re shit, actually.”

Bill Goss:                       Yeah.

Vicky Fraser:                 And so if somebody says, “This is fantastic,” you’re like, “Really? I don’t think so.”

Bill Goss:                       Yeah, you don’t believe it.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah, exactly. What’s your ulterior motive here? Which is just stupid. It’s like going back you your inner dickhead. So obviously receiving criticism is also painful, even though it’s said with the best intentions and it’s going to be useful. It’s really scary. It’s really scary putting something out there and saying to somebody, “What do you think of this?” When you’ve put that much time and effort and kind of love into it as well. It’s fairly horrific. So yeah, that I find really difficult.

Bill Goss:                       People listening and watching to this, if and when they have the book in their hands, what would … Like you say, I know the nicety. If you’ve read it, what would you like the reader to take from it? One thing. I know it’s hard. Probably many things but the one big thing from you that you’d like. Once they’ve got it in their hands, they’ve read it …

Vicky Fraser:                 I’m going to do this. That’s what I would like. I can do this and I will do this.

Bill Goss:                       Take action.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah. I don’t want it to be just a book that people flip through and think, “That was nice.” And then they put it away. You know, not everybody is going to read the book and then use it and then do something. Some people need the course so it’s like for me, I don’t always do things from books. I will then go and buy the course or whatever because that’s really helpful. But what I want people to take away is, “I can do this and I will do this.”

Bill Goss:                       Yeah. No, I agree, and I think that’s … Again, I haven’t read it cover to cover, but I’ve gone through the bits and bobs. I’m not one of your beta readers I know, but I do skip through people’s books and what I’ve read of it, it’s lovely and easy to read, and I think it will motivate with the right way. Not in a woo-woo, let’s go for it. In that kind of like, actually like you said, beetle steps, sorry. And it’s true and I think a lot of people that we both work with for some reason, we get it. We understand it might not be their day-to-day thing, writing a guide or book or whatever. But once they’ve created it and implemented, because remember, there’s lots more things to do after it’s been written.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah it’s only the start, writing the book.

Bill Goss:                       So I think that’s the key thing is … Well, you tell us. What would you recommend people listening to this … They haven’t bought it yet but just that kind of, the first steps really that people should take.

Vicky Fraser:                 After they’ve written the book?

Bill Goss:                       Yeah.

Vicky Fraser:                 So yeah you need a website for sure. That’s one of things actually. If your title is available as a URL, buy it immediately, as long as it doesn’t cost very much money, because you can redirect it. But you want a landing page for your book and then you want a little funnel to get people to go and buy it, because it’s all very well writing a book. Nobody is going to read it unless you put it out there and get them to. So, send people to your book page through your email list. If you haven’t got an email list actually, that’s the first thing you need to do. I’m kind of assuming people have got an email list. That’s the first thing you need to do. You need to send people to your books.

Bill Goss:                       Not many people do and this is the thing that always baffles me as well, is it’s creating that, isn’t it? It’s creating the list and creating the wall marks if you like and I’m sure you’re saying to me, I always say to people, “I know you’re writing the book and you’re running a business, your family and whatever else you’re doing, but you’ve got to treat it like a product at the end of the day.” I know a lot of people say, “Oh, well I’m not doing it really for money.” Well, it doesn’t necessarily have to be about the money. It’s about the follow on process as well, especially if you’re writing a business book. Then it should be about the money and what you can help other people with thereafter, but I always say, “Look, whenever you’re writing a book, you should be promoting it well in advance anyway.”

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah. Also I kind of call bullshit on the, “I’m not doing it for the money,” thing.

Bill Goss:                       I know! Yeah.

Vicky Fraser:                 It’s like people say that because they don’t want to be seen as mercenary. But it’s like, you’ve written this thing. Surely you want people to read it. If you want people to read it, you need to get it out there, otherwise why have you done it? That’s when we get back to vanity publishing, which is like, “Oh, I just want to have a book on my shelf.” It’s like, no, no, no. You’ve written this thing because you think people need to hear your message, so get it out there. And like Terry [Pratchett 00:22:57] said, “What every artist wants more than anything else is to be paid.” Damn right they do. You can’t pay the bills with likes and shares.

Bill Goss:                       No, 100%. My kind of company’s catchphrase now, I’ve stolen it from may people, but it’s, “Facts tell, stories sell.” And that’s the whole point of it all. It does sell. It sells on you as a person. It sells you as your company, who you work for, whatever you’re doing it for. Within that book or that guide it really does help elevate you authority-wise, credibility, et cetera et cetera, but it helps you sell stuff.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah.

Bill Goss:                       You know? And once people … It’s the know, like, and trust method, I know, but it’s very much that. taken their time, is what you’ve got to think about. Whether it’s a 50 page little guide or 300 pages, they’ve taken their time to actually read your words. And if they like it, guess what? They’re going to take action at the end of it.

Vicky Fraser:                 Yep, and they’re going to share it with their friends They’re going to recommend it to people. They’re going to tell other people about it.

Bill Goss:                       Yeah, absolutely. So just tell us again the title of the book.

Vicky Fraser:                 It’s, How the Hell Do You Write a Book?

Bill Goss:                       Brilliant, and is there a subtitle yet?

Vicky Fraser:                 There is and I’ve forgotten it, hang on. I’m going to have to dig it out now. Hang on one second.

Bill Goss:                       Don’t worry about it, that’s fine. So it’s going to be available in June?

Vicky Fraser:                 It’s going to be available in June. I’m getting the beta feedback back on … hopefully by the end of the day on Friday so next week, I … Is it about next week? Yeah. Next week I will be doing some editing and incorporating the changes that I want to incorporate and all the rest of it.

Bill Goss:                       And how long has this one taken? Because people are, again, obsessed with the number of pages and how long it takes to write, so how long has this one taken you to do on and off as it were?

Vicky Fraser:                 This is really interesting because I talk about this a bit in the book actually. I went away about a year and a half ago to write a different book for a week and I wrote the sum total of 2,800 words, which is barely an article,.

Bill Goss:                       Yeah.

Vicky Fraser:                 And I was like, “This is ridiculous.” And there’s a couple of reasons for that. But this book, I went off to Lanzarote for a week with three other people who were also writing a book and that was the most valuable thing that I did. I wrote my entire first draft in a week, so I had … Yeah so I had my rough outline and ideas and stuff before I went, and I just spent the whole week writing it. Since then, I’ve probably spent another week doing an edit of the shitty first draft, probably another week doing various bits and pieces, getting it out to the beta readers. They’ve had it for two weeks now or they will have had it two weeks and I’m probably going to spend another two weeks when I get that back doing a final edit hopefully, get it proofread, so it’ll probably be, I don’t know, a couple of months in the end?

Bill Goss:                       That’s not bad at all, is it?

Vicky Fraser:                 No, it’s not bad at all.

Bill Goss:                       Sorry to interrupt. When you went to Lanzarote … I’d like to pick up on that really. So you went away for, what, a week, did you say?

Vicky Fraser:                 Yeah.

Bill Goss:                       And what was it? Like a remote place or just a normal hotel? Did you kind of go off in a little camp somewhere? What was that?

Vicky Fraser:                 It was an Airbnb in a little village. Lovely little village and it was November, so it was a little bit off season and it was just four of us and we went specifically to do the writing and we got into a little routine. It would be like, some people would get up super early. I don’t do that. You just work all day, go and have lunch, do a bit more work, go out for dinner in the evening, and it was really focused and there was a bit of a dry run, really, because I’m going to be running high-end book writing retreats from next year because there is honestly nothing more valuable. If you really want to get this done and you want to invest in it and you want it to become a tool, going away for a week with somebody like me to guide you and a bunch of other people who are just focused on getting their books done in an amazing place, you will get it done. Especially [crosstalk 00:26:43].

Bill Goss:                       Good idea. Yeah, very good idea, yeah.

Vicky Fraser:                 Especially if you’re investing the kind of money I’m going to be charging for these retreats.

Bill Goss:                       As long as it’s a luxury spa somewhere.

Vicky Fraser:                 Oh, it will be total luxury, yeah. I basically just want to go to Bali.

Bill Goss:                       I picked up on that because I do think sometimes taking yourself out of it, in whatever part areas of business you are in, the times that I’ve done that and come away from the office and the production facilities, I never go there hardly any times anymore at all. Far from it because I’m not needed to be there. So I’m still the lead singer of the band and do all that stuff, which I enjoy that. That’s what I like doing. But taking yourself out there and writing a book, going away and doing it, like you say, is head space, no distractions. Maybe a mobile phone maybe but it’s a really good idea, isn’t it?

Vicky Fraser:                 It’s a fantastic idea and it’s one of the best pieces of advice that I can give to people is, you really struggle to make time for this kind of thing. You really struggle to make time for it and trying to fit it in piecemeal here and there. If you can put like a day a week aside, that’s fantastic, and I think everybody can shuffle things around, like maybe two half days. But if you can manage to take yourself away for a week and get away from everything just to, you know, “I’m going to get my first draft done. I’m going to get the whole thing done.” Then that is an incredibly cool thing to do. It’s really valuable and yeah, I can’t recommend it highly enough.

Bill Goss:                       I agree. And again, it’s all right for Vicky and I to say it and everything, but we’ve seen so many people benefit from writing their books. Not just financially but, let’s be honest, a lot of people make a lot of money from not just selling their books, but their courses, webinars, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, the list will go on and so it should. And you can make … Like Vicky said, you’d be lying to say if you’re going to spend this time, money, effort blah, blah, blah to get it done, you might as well make some money out of it as well. But as long as it helps you, as you say, within your own business expertise to really elevate yourself, doesn’t it? It really does [crosstalk 00:28:48] … I’ll say it till I’m blue in the tooth. It’s people like yourself as well, who’s a testament to that and lots of other people that once they’ve done it … And we know it can be hard and time-consuming, but you make it as hard and time-consuming as you want. It’s up to you, isn’t it?

Vicky Fraser:                 Exactly, yeah.

Bill Goss:                       You can get stuff done pretty quickly if you really want to do it. But once you’ve done it, boom, and if you market it the right way and position yourself in the right way, because I say, there’s lots more to it that Vicky can discuss and go on about as well, and there’s more to it than writing a book. It’s a lot to do with the marketing side of things as well. But once you’ve done it, you’ve spent some money because guess what, people? It does take a little bit of money to get it done and market it properly. But once you’ve done it the right way, there’s no going back, I don’t think.

Vicky Fraser:                 No. It’s an incredibly powerful thing to do in so many ways, yeah. It’s just really worth doing, really. Yeah, write your book.

Bill Goss:                       Absolutely. So one last time, and with the subtitle, give it to us.

Vicky Fraser:                 How the Hell Do You Write a Book? Unleash Your Inner Author and Write Your Business Book One Simple step At a Time.

Bill Goss:                       Boom, love it. Excellent. Okay, Vicky, thanks ever so much. So, where can people hear from you or hear about you?

Vicky Fraser:                 You can sign up for my daily emails which are marvelous at You can go to the book website, and pick up your copy of the book, which will be available for pre-order hopefully next week or the week … Well, I say I don’t know when this is going to go out. I don’t know why I’m saying that. It’s available for pre-order now and, yeah, then when it’s out, you’ll be the first to get a copy.

Bill Goss:                       Brilliant. Thanks ever so much, Vicky. Thanks for your time and we will see and speak to you soon.

Vicky Fraser:                 Thanks, Bill.